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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
   |
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:15:03 -
[1] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit).
I do not care that some players are multiboxing 10+ alts for sucide ganking. I don't care they all attack simultaneously. But I do not think its right that they can live in highsec with -9.9 security status thats just nonsense.
My proposal:
1) Disallow notourious criminals from docking in citadel stations. Force them to require other players or alt or to raise their security status if they want to trade in highsec. If they want to hide they have to use an upwell structure. Following current sec status and high-sec faction police mechanics, -2.0 or lower? forget docking in Jita. -4.5 you won't be able to dock in Uedama. etc.
Alternatively, "notorious criminal" = -5.0 and lower.
2) No rookie/noob ship for criminals. Player docking or respawning with criminal status should not get a free rookie ship in high-sec space stations. Force criminals to obtain frigate/shutle if they want to pull CONCORD from the gank point or to wait the criminal timer and then commit new criminal act before station to do it (and wait 15min more). (Obviously we cannot prevent them for keeping a home station in high-sec so they could respawn there...)
This suggestion probably could use some modifications because its probably not a good idea not to give a ship replacement to the newbie player who somehow attacks someone else in highsec from curiosity/stupidity and become a criminal. Maybe it should apply to "notorious criminals" only.
3) No citadel immunity for notorious criminals and players with criminal status. Force them to be docked in citadel before gank. Not to stay outside pre-aligned already.
This three changes will give high-sec residents higher controll over well known criminals who keep ganking every day. Unless they invest time or ISK to fix their security status they will be banned from stations leaving them the only option of player owned citadels. Citadel owners might decide they dont want to allow well known gankers to operate from their citadel so they ban them from there as well. Result - they will have to get their own citadel. This also can create a player oriented content about "allow gankers to use your citadel or we will wardec you" or "disallow gankers to use your citadel or we wardec you" etc.
Holy crap....
I should start a Suicide Ganking Collection thread like I did with AFK cloaking...and then after ISD locks it an a year later they'll create a sticky for these shiptoasts.
Look, suicide ganking is the fault of the pilot who is ganked. The large rewards are created by the terrible player who put way too much cargo value in his cargo hold.
Yes. It is that simple. Stop overloading your freighter and you'll largely be fine. No. Really. Stop being bad and you'll be fine.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:31:06 -
[2] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:I am a carebear, however I do agree that the consequences are rather nothing more then a feeble attempt by CCP to make it look like there is some teeth to a paper tiger, the addition of tags that people turn in to gain sec status...bah, there is nothing with teeth.
That being said, there is no growth by the grazers if there is no reason to fear the predator, however the folks who are -9.9 and others are not really predators, they are bored e-warriors, but like all things there must be something for them to stroke themselves over, if you adjust you game play you mostly won't have any issues, if I was a -9.9 I would expect more teeth out of the cops, since its just the way it is now I have no need to play as a criminal because I don't have to learn to survive off the land and meet others because it's not challenging enough to explore the criminal world when you can just buy tags to get back in good with the cops, true criminals would live in the frontier bushwacking folks for survival, lazy gankers...they don't learn anything but rinse and repeat.
You have it wrong.
This is NOT an issue CCP should even be looking at, talking about, considering or anything else.
The risk and reward are entirely based on player actions. A stupid idiotic player puts way too much cargo value into his ship and it is then blown up by suicide gankers. The solution is obvious: don't be a stupid idiotic player.
You're welcome.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:33:46 -
[3] - Quote
Do Little wrote:I am also a carebear industrialist. It's over 2 years since I last lost a ship in highsec. I ran a multibox mining fleet in Everyshore for 6 months with no problems. I haul billions through Uedama and Niarja every week. Gankers prey on the weak and the careless. If you factor them into the equation when you choose what, when and where to fly, New Eden is safer than most big cities in the real world. Being human, I expect to make mistakes and an occasional loss is built into my business plan.
Ganking is an important part of the risk/reward balance - destruction means more demand for the stuff I make and risk means less competition.
Learn how to survive as prey instead of asking CCP to remove the predators.
This man gets it. This man will beat the rest of you carebears every single time.
In fact, he is NOT a carebear. He realizes the nature of this game and takes the necessary steps to maximize his chances for success. And as a result he is not here whining for CCP to pat his poo-poo.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:47:42 -
[4] - Quote
Juss Karbuss wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
/snip
But the point is. The risk/reward aspect of freighter ganking is due completely and totally to idiotic freighter pilots. Stop being idiotic and stop getting ganked.
Edit II:L Sorry I used the word imprudent...that might cause some confusion among some of those who are upset by freighter ganking. Imprudent means you took a big chance and it is likely to blow up in your face. Another term for it could be stupid.
Don't be stupid and don't get ganked.
That is all true, but that all doesn't change the fact, that there is basically no risk involved for suicide gankers for so high rewards. Two completely different topics.
Of course there is no substantial risk because of the idiotic freighter pilot. He created the disproportionate reward for the given risk. If he weren't an idiot, there'd be now discussion right now. None.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:51:56 -
[5] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Other than the bumping part I completely agree. Getting Bumped, especially for extended periods of time, should either count as aggression or not affect warping.
Getting caught and killed is EVE working as intended.
Yes, it happens because it's easy and because the consequences are things that people that play that way don't care about. You make it even easier when you load lots of value into your ship and decide to make it easier to kill and then go without escort.
You only get bumped if you are a complete and total idiot. If you put 750 million ISK of cargo value in your charon with reinforced bulkheads guess what: YOU WON'T GET GODDAMNED BUMPED.
Or if you do, just log off. They won't gank you they are hoping to ransom you. But with 750 million ISK in cargo value, at most 375 million can drop. Given that the gankers will need about 500 million to gank you...it is not an economically viable gank.
Or let me put it this way: If you are getting bumped you likely made a number of dumb moves and deserve what is coming.
Bottomline: Don't be dumb and you'll be fine.
Good rule for life in general too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 08:57:28 -
[6] - Quote
To be clear here....
Risk is not something imposed by CCP. Risk is imposed by other players.
Yes.
Risk is imposed by other players.
If you screw up, other players may be ready to pounce and push in your poop.
Jump instead of bridge....that is on you. You screwed up.
But deadspace mods on your CNR and get ganked, you were dumb and created a situation ripe for a suicide gank.
Put 6.8 billion ISK into your obelisk? Yeah, you just created a gank opportunity.
In fact, putting 6.8 billion ISK into your freigher says the following, "I love risk. I love it and I find it exciting and thrilling!!!" When you get ganked after doing this a few times...WITF are you here on the forums complaining? You got what you asked for.
Be prudent. Be smart. And you won't get bumped and you won't get suicide ganked.*
*Aside from getting ganked for ***** and giggles.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6416
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 09:11:28 -
[7] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Eh, you still might get bumped even with an empty cargohold. You know this. It's less likely, but it happens.
Regardless, the only reason you are getting bumped instead of disrupted or scrambled is because those things would trigger Concord. It's stupid that it effects warping, more stupid that it's allowed to circumvent the rules of hisec. Kill them if you want, but do it in a way consistent with the rules. 'Emergent' isn't synonymous with 'Good'.
But that's really a digression from the main point, which indeed was don't be an idiot about how you move valuable cargo around and then be upset that you got caught and killed.
Yes, I know because it happened to one of my alts who can fly a freighter. I logged off. Came back 15 minutes later and logged in to a fully intact freighter. It was empty and ganking it would have gotten them nothing. It was opportunistic bumping hoping for a sucker to payout a ransom.
People who suicide gank freighters tend to be profit oriented. No profit they don't gank....so logoff. You might lose that (empty) freighter, but probably not.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6418
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 17:18:08 -
[8] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Don't be stupid and don't get ganked. HOLY CRAP!!! This is not about me getting suicide ganked and crying over forums LOL. Check my char, check my corp you see I lost nothing to suicide ganker about a half a year. I learned how to avoid them - after all they seek only weak and clueless as was said and thats fine and that is not my concern here. [snip] are you actually risk anything other than your target will survive?
Look, this is a tiresome and boring topic at this point. People complain about how easy it is to gank. It is GÇ£easyGÇ¥ if you know what you are doing. But people only do it because the other side presents the opportunity. If you are blind jumping a super capital to cyno beacons you are presenting an opportunity where you will likely die and quite possibly it will be very GÇ£easyGÇ¥ for those doing it. Once a player has serially screwed up killing him is going to usually be GÇ£easyGÇ¥. It is GÇ£easyGÇ¥ because that fool made it easy. So stop making it easy. That is my point.
And no you clearly do not think it is fine that suicide ganking is GÇ£fineGÇ¥ otherwise you would not be suggesting a nerf and an indirect buff to being stupid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6418
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 22:31:09 -
[9] - Quote
Vokan Narkar wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:
And no you clearly do not think it is fine that suicide ganking is GÇ£fineGÇ¥ otherwise you would not be suggesting a nerf and an indirect buff to being stupid.
I do not think it is fine to basically live in high-sec with -9.9 security status. It makes no sense that the empire/system/npcs call it whatever allows you do use all their features completely ignoring the fact you have heavy criminal. Btw neither you nor Daichi Yamato did answer my question. Nevermind. I know how these forums works and who posts here. You will protect your own agenda for all costs no matter if someone actually have a point or not. Logic nor common sense doesn't apply here. I have another way to prove my point. Didn't want to go that route but if thats the way CPP can notice something isn't alright then so be it.  Now I am done talking here it leads no nowhere - you are not even willing to read what I wrote. Now I go ingame and make a plan B.
I didn't answer your question because I find it irrelevant. The whole concept of suicide ganking would not exist if players using freighters were prudent and reasonable. The problem is not suicide gankers in anyway whatsoever, but is a function of the players using freighters. They may really bad decisions and as a result create the entire issue because of their own imprudence. How is this CCP's problem? If some player is an idiot...how do you expect CCP to address it via a patch? And why are you nerfing a symptom of the "problem" and not the "problem" itself?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6418
|
Posted - 2017.04.24 22:33:57 -
[10] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:I'd consider accepting docking restrictions now that we have citadels, but not without a trade.
I'd be willing to support restricted docking for criminals if and only if faction police and customs ships stopped attacking ctiminals.
The creep towards a safer highsec must be stopped.
And what about the market? And if you say, "That's what alt's are for," then it is a bad idea automatically.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6421
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 04:15:51 -
[11] - Quote
To try an kill this thread....
Most suicide ganks are not for ***** and giggles. Most are for profit. Thus the whole risk vs. reward discussion is literally not a CCP problem. At all.
The reward is created by the player who overloads his freighter. Further, by overloading his freighter the player has taken on considerable risk. This does NOT have to be matched by risk on the side of suicide ganking. To think this is a stilted and childish view of balance. If I act like an idiot in game I should suffer the consequences of being an idiot. To insist that the player(s) who are imposing consequences on me for my idiocy face that same level of risk as I do even though he (they) are not acting idiotic is itself idiotic. This kind of symmetry is just plain old vanilla stupid and only people who do not understand risk would make it.
The risk suicide gankers face is not an issue at all, let alone for CCP. The reward that suicide gankers receive is not an issue at all, let alone CCP. The solution to this problem is completely and fully in the hands of the players. Do not overload your freighter and you most likely be safe aside from the lulz gank.
In fact, if players using freighters tanked their freighters and kept the cargo value well below the replacement value of a gank fleet over time they might even be able to use autopilot again. But fortunately for suicide gankers there is no shortage or idiotic freighter pilots.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6421
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 05:07:54 -
[12] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:To try an kill this thread.... So, business as usual for you Teckos Pech wrote:Most suicide ganks are not for ***** and giggles. Most are for profit. Citation please
Yes, business as usual as it is not a balance issue. As for a "citation" goo check the killboards for freighters, finding an empty freighter* killed in HS the exception not the rule. And yes I have done this and generally an empty freighter is rarely ganked.
*By empty I mean empty, not something with a double wrapped courier contract. Those will get ganked based on the idea that if it is double wrapped it is likely valuable otherwise why double wrap it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6421
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 05:34:55 -
[13] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:To try an kill this thread.... So, business as usual for you Teckos Pech wrote:Most suicide ganks are not for ***** and giggles. Most are for profit. Citation please Yes, business as usual as it is not a balance issue. As for a "citation" goo check the killboards for freighters, finding an empty freighter* killed in HS the exception not the rule. And yes I have done this and generally an empty freighter is rarely ganked. *By empty I mean empty, not something with a double wrapped courier contract. Those will get ganked based on the idea that if it is double wrapped it is likely valuable otherwise why double wrap it. This thread isn't about freighter ganking specifically even though you try to make it about it. It's about meaningful consequences for gankers in general or the lack thereof.
Ganking mining ships is a subsidized activity.
Players gank blockade runners to play the numbers, again for profit.
Other ganking is just for ***** and giggles and not common. To see this suicide ganking of new players (15 days old or less) happens to about 1% of new players.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6422
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 06:01:14 -
[14] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Ganking mining ships is a subsidized activity. Players gank blockade runners to play the numbers, again for profit. Other ganking is just for ***** and giggles and not common. To see this suicide ganking of new players (15 days old or less) happens to about 1% of new players. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y Which, yet again, has nothing to do with what this thread is about. Let me quote the relevant part of the OP again as you seem to have trouble finding it: Vokan Narkar wrote:I do not care that some players are multiboxing 10+ alts for sucide ganking. I don't care they all attack simultaneously. But I do not think its right that they can live in highsec with -9.9 security status thats just nonsense.
Then why did he mention suicide ganking and why does he want it nerfed...as per his own words? There is no problem with ganking and there is no problem with criminals accessing HS. Everything working as intended.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6423
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 06:51:15 -
[15] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Then why did he mention suicide ganking and why does he want it nerfed...as per his own words? There is no problem with ganking and there is no problem with criminals accessing HS. Everything working as intended. Because usually those -10's who live in lowsec, the only place where you can gain that sec status otherwise, don't run around in highsec serial ganking nonstop (they live in lowsec after all). He is questioning that very intention that you speak so highly of and the current status quo, that -10 gankers only have laughable consequences that are easily evaded. He has every right to discuss this in this forum section, as he makes a proposal for changes, even if you think that his opinion is wrong and that this thread should be "killed" - to use your own words.
Wait -10s live in LS so that is why he mentioned suicide ganking? Most HS suicide gankers have very low sec status and they either live in NS or HS.
A -10 living in LS is not a ganker. He is a pirate.
A -10 player cannot move around as easily as a player with a higher sec status.
Maybe he has every right to discuss it, but we have a right to rebut his statements...of course he is kind of a ***** whining about how people won't agree with him.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6423
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 08:21:36 -
[16] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Wait -10s live in LS so that is why he mentioned suicide ganking? Most HS suicide gankers have very low sec status and they either live in NS or HS.
A -10 living in LS is not a ganker. He is a pirate.
A -10 player cannot move around as easily as a player with a higher sec status. You asked why he mentioned suicide ganking. There are other ways to become -10 than suicide ganking. But nvm ... Teckos Pech wrote:Maybe he has every right to discuss it, but we have a right to rebut his statements... Then DO SO. Go ahead and discuss his statements and don't just throw your usual ganker-copypasta into the thread without even looking what the thread is actually about.
He mentioned suicide ganking explicitly and it having low risk. Here is his first paragraph,
Quote:It is really annoying how easy suicide ganking is and that it has basically no consequences. Its basically a zero risk activity, the worst that can happen is that you do your math wrong and don't bring enough alts to destroy your target or you will be unlucky and you don't get any worthy loot (if the purpose of the sucide gank is to make a profit).
He is talking about criminals and suicide ganking.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6424
|
Posted - 2017.04.26 17:10:36 -
[17] - Quote
Sarah Flynt wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Wait -10s live in LS so that is why he mentioned suicide ganking? Most HS suicide gankers have very low sec status and they either live in NS or HS.
A -10 living in LS is not a ganker. He is a pirate.
A -10 player cannot move around as easily as a player with a higher sec status. You asked why he mentioned suicide ganking. There are other ways to become -10 than suicide ganking. But nvm ... Teckos Pech wrote:Maybe he has every right to discuss it, but we have a right to rebut his statements... Then DO SO. Go ahead and discuss his statements and don't just throw your usual ganker-copypasta into the thread without even looking what the thread is actually about.
I still don't see any problem here. Black Pedro covered it pretty well.
1. We want players to interact.
2. We want players to interact in all areas of the game, HS, LS, NS, and w-space.
3. Interaction can take any form, competitive, cooperative, both hostile and non-hostile.
4. This proposal seeks to restrict player interaction.
5. For what reason? It is too "low risk" to gank freighters (learn to read).
6. The "ease" of ganking freighter is not really "easy" (it takes a f'king fleet, a bumper, a scout, a loot scooper/hauler).
7. Freighter ganking is totally and solely the result of bad decision making on the part of the freighter pilot.
8. Freighter pilots making good decisions solves the OP's "issue".
Nothing to see here, move along.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6428
|
Posted - 2017.04.28 20:12:18 -
[18] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:Carnivorous Swarm wrote:Ganking is easy with no consequences?
I urge anyone who really believes that to try to pull off twenty pod ganks. I doubt they'd be able to succeed in half.
Ganking requires logistics beyond standard high sec play: warp-ins, scan alts, and stocking of equipment. Ganks don't happen by chance, they're deliberate and focused.
Ganking either requires luck or a lot of scouts because you are an easy target. Anti-gankers, KB whoring mercs, and randoms can and do shoot at you all the time. It only takes an Alpha ECM frigate to stop 1 to 3 gankers in destroyers.
The ganker is effectively neutered from all other high sec play. The SP is stuck on that character. Yeah, you can buy tags, but then you'll still likely have a ton of killrights against you for the next month. The only other pilot in the entire game with the same level of restrictions is a pod-killing low sec pirate.
The gankers that "make it look easy" are experts or FC'd by expects of the playstyle. It still takes considerable effort to succeed, much more than running missions or freighter hauling (all three which I've done extensively in my Eve career).
Most importantly, it takes little effort to become an unattractive gank target.
So little that I do not understand how a player can be in a universe filled with other people and either 1) not know ganking exists by the time they can pilot a freighter, or 2) are unwilling to do anything to protect their one billion+ ISK investment. Lol - It took me and my guys 1 day to master ganking mission runners. There is some logistics up front and kill rights are a thing, but let's be honest here - it's not difficult. Doing it for profit - that takes some understanding of math, drop rates and being able to pick good targets. Mission ganking profitability does take some brains, but blowing up the ships is way easty. If you're ganking low hanging CODE type fruit - it's even easier. You google ships/fits for ganking barges, acquire the stuff and go do it. There is no elite twitchery involved in getting around HS as a criminal. Let's not make this out to be more complex than it is.
Complex has nothing to do with it. I be pole vaulting would not be easy for 99.99% of the people, but it is not really complex.
Ganking is harder than being a dimbulb with your freighter. Ganking is a coordination problem, and such problems are less easy than situations were you do not have to coordinate multiple individuals. The solution is also easy, don't be a dimbulb and overload your freighter.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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Teckos Pech
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
6439
|
Posted - 2017.04.30 19:42:10 -
[19] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Vokan Narkar wrote:Yes sure killrights are a thing but - if they put too high killright like 100mil then unless you fly something in that value nobody is going to waste money for it. And if its too low then you can abuse alt and pay for it yourself and you lose nothing but noob ship. Killrights alone prevent almost anyone with sense from engaging in a criminal act in highsec if they have any intention to engage in income-generating activities. The 'consequence' of giving up your CONCORD protection, even to one person, or more likely everyone at a small cost, is incredibly harsh from a cost-to-benefit prospective. I will agree that if you live outside of highsec, or don't plan on mining, hauling, missioning or incursioning in highsec for the next 30 days it is less relevant. For outlaws, it already doesn't matter. A killright means nothing if you are -5 or below, nor does any additional 'consequence' that allows people to shoot you given you are already free-to-shoot.
Agreed. People need to not only look at the actual consequences (sec status hit, 15 minute timer, killrights, etc.) but also the opportunity costs. Kill rights make it harder to do certain things in HS. And once your sec status is low enough that is even more true. These people are cutting themselves off in many ways from HS. Yes there are ways to get around it...but at a cost. That some players find this cost acceptable does not mean anything is broken or needs fixing IMO.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
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